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Report Public Meeting 12th July 2007
Report on Public Meeting relating to Sewerage and Surface water drainage problems in Turrell Drive, Smiths Crescent, Winstone Close. Glebe Road and The Nordalls. 7.30pm - Thursday 12th July 2007. Kessingland Primary School, Field Lane, Kessingland. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Present:- John Goldsmith -County Councillor for Kessingland & Southwold (Chairman) Frank Mortimer-Chairman Development/Control Waveney District Council Jamie Starling - District Councillor Kessingland Nigel Baker-Querelle - Property Services Suffolk County Council Derek Oldham- Area Highways Manager Suffolk County Council Julian Walker- Services Manager Waveney District Council Tony Kerr - Environmental Health Waveney District Council. Hugh Querrand - Anglian Water Services. Members of the Public. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The meeting opened with John Goldsmith welcoming the members of the Community and to the Officers for attending to answer questions about the subject of the sewerage/surface water drainage problems in the Kessingland Area Before the meeting started, Mr Sankey of 22 Turrell Drive showed a recording that he made following the heavy rain that occurred on the 27th February 2007. He added that he moved into his current address on the 16th February since when he has seven instances of where surface water and sewerage has come through the inspection cover in his garden and run off through his garden and down towards the direction of The Nordalls. This was followed by another recording, shown by Mike Dexter of 3 Winston Close. This was recorded in 2003 and shows the same problem with surface water flooding into Glebe Road East and Wash Lane. After the showing of both these recordings, Mr Sankey started the proceedings by asking "Why have we got storm water running into drains that are too small ". Mr Querrand for Anglian Water said that the period that Mr Sankey referred to 27th/28th February, there were exceptional weather conditions which did produce flash flooding. Anglian Water had flagged the sewers for cleaning and CCTV inspection, some of this work had been done on the system, but the work hadn't been completed by the time the weather came in. He added that there was a model in existence which covers 2005/2010 whereby a number of schemes have been put forward and decisions on those will be known in the next 3/4 months. Mr Sankey asked why the frame was too small - in his experience it should be 18" but in fact it is only 12". Mr Querrand (AW) stated that the system had been designed to carry sewerage. Mr Sankey stated that the speed at which the water was rising in his recording it only took three and a half minutes to flood his garden before running off towards The Nordalls, he has to put sandbags in the front of his garage and he added the volume of water is not just caused by the additional rain water, the main drains and storm drains run alongside each other and when it gets to a point that it is up to capacity, the water just runs into the sewerage system. Mr Querrand (AW) said that all the issues raised will be taken on board, he will take them away and discuss them with Anglian Water Management. Mr Sankey stated that the existing system cannot take anymore added development. Mr Querrand (AW) stated that if he is referring to the new development proposal then there will be no problem with their foul water/storm water- the development will have a stand alone system for the storm water and the foul water will run away from the area that is under discussion and will not add to the problems currently being encountered by the residents. Mr Sankey concluded his questions by stating that the current drains are not adequate enough to cope, that's why the flooding occurs. Miss Ingle - 18 The Nordalls stated that everybody knows why this meeting was called and therefore surely the only question that needs answering is "What are these gentlemen going to do about the problem, also at what stage did the Environmental Health become involved because we understand that it was only at the last minute when this meeting was called ". John Goldsmith explained that all the information that he had gathered for the meeting had come from the local residents and he gave an explanation as to the amount of work he had undertaken over the past 18months. Frank Mortimer (WDC) informed those present that he has had the issue of flooding come up when he has been chairing the Forum Meetings. He suggested that a programme be put in place and that a timetable should be followed, keeping the residents informed at all stages. Diane Truman of Wash Lane said that since 2004 she has been subject to flooding on four occasions, she has written to Anglian Water, Highways Dept, Essex and Suffolk Water and to the M.P. Bob Blizzard trying to get information. "In respect of the new build, we are being told that there is no need to worry about the water/drainage. That the water/sewerage will be going in an easterly direction away from the problem area into the system that will run down Wash Lane - What additional precautions are being taken to ensure that this does not add to existing problems. " Mr Querrand (AW) stated that with regards to the foul water sewerage the developer will have to ensure that there will be no increase in surface water, standing water will be disposed on site through soakaways, only the sewerage will run off site. The Model produced by the developer indicates that the foul sewer has the capacity and surface water will not enter the system. Since 2002 there has been a scheme for Kessingland which was planned in two stages. In the scheme 2005/2010 The Nordalls and surrounding area are currently being looked at. He couldn't give any guarantee that the scheme will go in 2010, it depends on other issues in the investment period. Within the next 3/4 months it will be known whether the proposal has been accepted. There was a second stage proposal but no decision has been made yet - there is a funding issue and at the moment there are more schemes than there is funding available. Mr Young 135 Church Road - stated "there was an improvement which stopped the situation in Coopers Drive, but the system still blocks up when there is heavy rain - caused by road surface water. Kessingland has a Victorian system which is having trouble coping with modern day demands - What is going to happen - more water in the system means more flooding issues because of the size of the pipes in Kessingland ". Mr Querrand stated that a lot of the problem of blocking up is caused by debris etc., coming down from the fields into the system something which cannot be catered for other than by regular cleaning out. Mr Lane Glebe Road West - stated that we have Environmental Health present, there was then a discussion about the health hazard of sewerage coming up in peoples gardens and in some cases inside the house rendering bathrooms unusable for periods up to 24 hours. Mr Lane asked the questions " 1) Is Kessingland taken to be a holiday village -2) We have read in the papers that there is a large building programme planned for some 400/700 houses. Where is the drainage for all those houses going to run. We came here tonight to get answers to our problems - my garage gets flooded - we have seen pictures shown to us here tonight, isn't it about time that all the officials here got together and go back and speak to their own Health and Safety people and get the problems resolved - you all know what the problems are by now." John Goldsmith agreed with Mr Lane, he stated its quite true what he said but he has been working to get together the people that matter and he made reference to the last item on his agenda - to report on costing for research. He has been trying to get answers to questions raised by the Community and he stated that tonight's meeting was the start but he added that he felt that not everybody appreciated what he has being doing for the past 18months. Miss Ingle The Nordalls - stated that in respect of the flooding when its so bad people can't get out to go shopping because of having to walk through sewerage and foul water that this is putting a restraint on peoples lives and therefore illegal and in breach of government regulations. Lisa Catchpole The Nordalls - stated that she is a Registered child minder and has children of her own she went onto to say that " When the flooding occurs is poses a health risk for the children and as the business is run from home some of the parents may stop bringing their children for me to look after. I cannot allow children out to play when there are the remnants of sewerage laying around outside the house and in my garden." she added " Is it true that the system in Kessingland takes all the sewerage from Pontins at Pakefield." Mr Querrand (AW) stated yes it is pumped through from their holding tanks. Following a question from a member of the audience about the population of Kessingland and the inadequate drainage system, John Goldsmith confirmed the population to be about 4400 rising to 10,000 during the holiday season. Rose Hutton Turrell Drive - asked if the Pontins sewerage could be taken off the Kessingland system. She said " For the past 35years water and sewerage has been pumped down from the Pontins site, now is the time to have it diverted to somewhere else ". Mr Sankey Turrell Drive - " The problem is with the main sewer, its not big enough to take today's demand ". Mr Querrand (AW) stated that he will take all these concerns on board and report back to Anglian Water. Pat Roberts The Nordalls - " I have lived in The Nordalls for 20 years. Every time there are adverse weather conditions the water runs past my home and into my neighbours garden. It comes from the area further up the village around the back of the shops and school into Turrell Drive and then into The Nordalls " . Mr Querrand (AW) asked Mrs Roberts to see him after the meeting. John Goldsmith said that he has known of 4 occasions in the past year where flooding has been excessive, two videos have been recorded, which he has taken to all the relevant agencies to make them aware of the problem. Mr Querrand (AW) stated that the issues of flooding were not as serious 12 months ago as they are today. Mr Sankey stated that storm water should not allowed into the sewerage system. Mrs Greer The Nordalls - " When it rains excessively the water comes past my front door and is so bad that I have to wade through it to get to my car. Anglian Water say that this is a funding issue, if there is no funding then the improvements will not get done, the residents cannot afford to wait there must be a way to prioritise the problems in Kessingland. " She added that she didn't realise that the flood water outside her address contains sewerage until she was told recently. John Goldsmith mentioned the Very Sheltered Housing Project - the developer must prove that there will no increase or add to the existing system. Mrs Grange 25 The Nordalls - " With regards to the Pontins sewerage that comes into the village. At one time it was only during the holiday season, now its an all year round operation, cannot a solution be found to divert their waste ". Mr Querrand (AW) stated he couldn't answer those questions. Another member of the public referring back to the elderly that live in The Nordalls surely Environmental Health must see that there is a problem, these elderly people cannot get out of their bungalows -" Who is going to help them " Jackie Rogers Francis Road - she mentioned her involvement with a recent planning application which had been refused and it was said then that there would be no more planning, no more building until the system in Kessingland was upgraded - " When do we get the upgrade ". Mr Querrand (AW) stated that Anglian Water cannot legally stop development based on the rare incidence of heavy rainfall. Anglian Water cannot legally stop a developer from connecting to the sewerage system, there is no power for them to take action. One resident added that the sewerage pipes are disintegrating. Mr Querrand (AW) said he would look at that issue, the same resident then asked " When do the drains get checked ". Derek Oldham (SCC Highways) said that the gully's are cleared about every 9 months, but having listened to what the residents have said at this meeting he will be taking a number of issues away, and he added that he is happy to bring forward the work of clearing the gully's that lead to the sewers. Mrs Sewell The Knoll Guest House Church Road - stated " Nobody has mentioned the drains and gully's in Church Road, the gully's cannot cope with the surface water and the water comes into my property. Its not uncommon for me or my husband to unblock debris from gully's. My husband has walked up Church Road towards the Church and has cleared debris away from around the drains. The storm drains need to be maintained more often to avoid the misery that the people at this meeting have to suffer when there is a flash flood caused by blockages in the system. Where do the storm drains run to and where does the surface water go, I know that since the work in Coopers Drive that a ditch runs around the back of my property ". John Goldsmith said that there was an attenuation ditch which takes the water down to the marshes. Derek Oldham (SCC) said in response to Mrs Sewell that he would go away and get someone to look at the problem. He added that the drains are cleaned out every 9 months. Where there are instances of exceptional heavy rain and this brings debris from the fields and blocks the gratings he asked that the matter be reported to SCC Highways. Jean Purkis Lloyds Avenue - stated " I use to live off beach Road in Holly Grange and that use to get flooded, I now live in Lloyds Avenue. As a Parish Councillor I am telling you that every spare bit of ground in Kessingland has been developed, when planning applications are received , including infill development, Waveney District Council should take the flooding issues into account, but they don't because they know if they refuse any planning applications, the applicant can appeal their case to the Secretary of State and leave WDC with a big bill for costs". Mr Querrand (AW) said that this was the case, WDC don't have to take notice of Anglian Water on planning applications because Anglian Water are not one of the statutory consultees. Frank Mortimer (WDC Chairman of Development Control) stated that WDC has refused planning for The Nordalls and one of the grounds for refusal was the flooding issue. John Goldsmith stated that where planning is refused if it doesn't comply with Planning Policy then yes it can cost WDC if the developer sues. Dan Penson 10 Lloyds Avenue - questioned the size of the pipes as he had been told that it was an 8" pipe and that it was inadequate. It is obviously not adequate because in circumstances where there is heavy rain the pipes cannot cope, also the manholes in Church road get blocked up and it becomes impossible to walk and use the footpaths. John Goldsmith said as recently as four weeks ago he went to the garages in Glebe Road West because there was flooding there. These garages are the responsibility of WDC and he reported the matter to them, he hasn't heard back from them so the problem must have cleared. He then went on to say that at the time when there was The Village and The Beach, the area in between had clay pits. Also recently as 2 days before the meeting he knows that Anglian Water were looking at the system around by the school with CCTV cameras, but he hasn't received that report yet. Miss Ingle The Nordalls - said " Why can't Environmental Health do something about this situation ". Mr Kerr ( Environmental Health) - said that there was very little Environmental Health could do because of their legal standing - they can apply informal pressure on Anglian Water who are responsible for the drainage and sewerage. Mr Querrand (AW) stated that they have to prioritise the remedial work right across the Anglian Water catchment area. Diane Trueman Wash Lane - said " If Environmental Health can't do anything formally then the people present here tonight representing the various agencies should report back to their individual Health and Safety Departments to get some resolution. People will not continue to put up with this situation ". John Goldsmith then explained about the various agencies and committees that he sits on. He explains to them what the problems are, he has shown them the recordings from the residents and the photographs and he said that some of the problems have been resolved. Lisa Catchpole The Nordalls - " Is something going to be done as a result of this meeting ". Mr Young 135 Church Road - " I have my own well that was contaminated some time ago by flooding and they had to rely on bottled water. The problem is that this are we are talking about is a clay based subsoil which causes the flooding because the water cannot soak properly into the ground and stays on the surface and runs down the road. In addition scrub comes down off the fields including the clay and clogs up the system. You can see the clay sometimes as it lies on the road/footpaths after there has been heavy rain. Something needs sorting out and sorting out quickly ". Mr Sankey Turrell Drive - stated that for individual residents to sue Anglian Water it would be too expensive but if the residents effected by this problem got together they would have a good case Rose Hutton Turrell Drive - stated when she walks Church Road after one of these flooding incidents, the silt just gathers and collects around the drains which are never cleared. Derek Oldham (SCC Highways) - stated the Highways don't check everyone but when he gates back he will get a crew out and check the drains in Church Road. He added if anybody has any similar problems then if they come to him after the meeting he will take appropriate action. Jennifer Roper Turrell Drive said " In the Turrell Drive / McLean Drive area nobody ever comes and cleans out the drains or the footpaths ". Derek Oldham (SCC Highways) stated that he needs to be told about these problems before he can act upon them, Resident of 2 Smith's Crescent - " Another problem which adds to blocked drains is the grass cutting of the verges and green areas. The council never pick up the grass which is just left and consequently the grass ends up blocking the drains, why can't the grass be removed, that would solve part of the problem. If the drains were cleaned on a regular basis then this wouldn't happen, I cant remember the last time I saw anybody cleaning out the drains " Derek Oldham (SCC Highways) - stated that the grass cutting is done by WDC and they do not collect up the grass because of the extra work and the extra cost involved so therefore that won't get done. WDC should sweep the channels after to keep them clear. Rose Hutton Turrell Drive - about the grass cutting in Lloyd's Ave, Manor Walk, Glebe Road East, Smiths Crescent, she said that she has spoken to the team cutting the grass asking why the grass wasn't taken away and she was told that the person didn't know and referred her to his boss. Also when the grass is cut particularly in Manor Walk its just dropped all over the road surface. Resident asked " Where are the electrical pumps situated in Marsh Lane and when do they cut in ". John Goldsmith stated that the pumps cut in when the system gets overloaded. Resident " Do these pumps connect to the River 100 ". John Goldsmith stated they connect to the sewerage farm in Marsh Lane. He then stated it was time for comments to come from the Officers present. Bruce Provan ( Waveney District Councillor for Kessingland) - informed those present that he sits on the Planning/Development Control and he has made it clear on Kessingland matters that he is saying "No" to any further development and will be voting accordingly against them unless Anglian Water do something to resolve the situation. Jamie Starling ( Waveney District Councillor for Kessingland) - asked the question " If Anglian Water get the funding how long will it be before remedial work can be undertaken to resolve the problems we have heard about tonight". Mr Querrand (AW) - stated the Kessingland scheme is scheduled for the period 2005/2010 and it will 4/6 months before he will know which schemes have been successful - Anglian Water at Peterborough are dealing with this and they have been informed about all the problems so far in this area. There will some feedback in the next few weeks but he couldn't give any assurances because these incidents are caused mostly by severe weather conditions and Anglian Water cannot legislate for the weather. He went on to say that those residents present should get their local MP involved he might have some influence if he gets involved , he added the more voices that the residents get behind them the better the pressure they can apply. He said he will take forward the matters that were discussed with a view of getting some proposals to take to Anglian Water Asset Management, to come up with some answers. Julian Walker (Waveney District Council) - He said that for the past 10/12 years WDC have been aware of the problems in this area and they have been asking residents to write in with their complaints so that they can present a case to Anglian Water. The residents need to keep writing to Anglian Water at Peterborough setting out their problems, the frequency of them and the consequences of what happens, that they need to do this over the next 2/3 months before decisions are made. Anglian Water do have a priority system for dealing with issues. Frank Mortimer (WDC) - stated Anglian Water at Chelmsford gave a statement regarding the planning application at The Nordalls, but because Anglian Water are not one of the statutory bodies WDC don't have to take notice, but in this case WDC did. He added there is a major problem in Kessingland. Anglian Water need to set up a programme so that the residents are kept informed and answers given. He added Anglian Water should report back through John Goldsmith so that Kessingland Parish Council can be informed what is or what is not happening - then the Community can v be informed. John Goldsmith asked if the gullying system could be cut off. Derek Oldham (SCC) said the consequences of taking that action would add to the flooding problem not take anything away. Tony Kerr ( Environmental Health ) stated what they need is more letters and photographs and he will talk to individual residents should they wish to contact him. Resident - " Can pressure be applied to Anglian Water through Environmental Health ". John Goldsmith stated that in the residents present leave their names and addresses he will ensure that they et a copy of the report of this meeting which they submit when they write their letters Nigel Baker- Querrelle ( SCC Property Services). - explained what his responsibilities were including improving services in communities. This will happen in Kessingland with the provision of the new build. There will as part of the planning process conditions for the developers to follow with regards to sewerage and surface water. He added that John Goldsmith has done some good work on behalf of the Community and that everybody there should get together and form a formal pressure group - provide information to John Goldsmith and at the end of the day apply pressure to Anglian Water with more volume of information, more representation and making Anglian Water know that the residents won't go away. John Goldsmith said that the residents should form a Tenants Association to provide information to give him and any information will be passed to the relevant department. Mr Young Church Road - stated that they haven't been working together as a group likewise the departments don't work together, he said the residents should work together as a group. Dennis Lane 67 Glebe Road - he asked whether John Goldsmith would be able to cope with the mail that he would get from the residents because there would be a lot. He stated they came tonight for answers and all they have been told is to write letters. These are very important issues and we should think about the legacy we are leaving to our young children coming after us. He added he wanted to know from those present when would be the next meeting. Resident " Something has to be done before 2010, we don't want to be fobbed off and told to write more letters to the various agencies, their representatives have been at the meeting and have seen and heard about the problems, they should act on what they have seen and what they have heard here tonight".
The Meeting closed at 10pm.
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